Curse

Arcanis the Omnipotent · Feb 17, 2008, 07:49 PM // 19:49

I hate farming.

That being said. I hate PVP too. GvG in general because it tends to create the biggest assholes in the PVP side, and thus encourages me even more not to PVP and thus all those PVP people who say GvG and in wider that PVP is the greatest part of the game, and the only part that skill balances effect reinforce my idea that most of the assholes in this game are from GvG.

You see my problem.

But back to my original point. I hate farming, I don't do it for the same reason. Farmers tend to be the bigger assholes of the PVE side. They farm, to sell stuff they find for lots of money, to buy more expensive stuff from other farmers... For what reason? To make their character the most pwnz they can.

When I play PVE, I play because I have fun doing it, going through different areas to become the strongest I can. And conquer the areas of the world. Explore, finding adventure, and playing out my own (and the actual) story.

When I PVP, its usually Alliance Battles, but sometimes the Team and Random, depending on what the guild is doing. But its only because there is a reward for doing that PVP. A tangible reward that doesnt take to the end of of several rounds. That's always been my major problem with PVP. No real reward. Just fighting for fighting's sake is not its own reward. Titles are stupid, fame and little glowy animals mean nothing to me. And fighting your ashoff in the Hall of Heroes to get a special weapon... means jack.

At what point is this natural love of PVP after PVE going to start?

roshanabey2 · Feb 17, 2008, 08:11 PM // 20:11

It matters what kinda character you make first, you should make a pvp character first if you want to see the game at it's best, but a lot of people make a pve first.

Snow Bunny · Feb 17, 2008, 08:12 PM // 20:12

I bought Guild Wars after reading about the monk class and Guild versus Guild battles.

I truth be told cared little about lore/items/quests.

I just wanted to monk the hell out of my teammates.

I always interpreted the game as PvP first.

Chthon · Feb 17, 2008, 08:15 PM // 20:15

GW is a PvE game with a PvE player base who wants PvE-focused development. Unfortunately, a-net didn't get the memo.

PinoyRurik · Feb 17, 2008, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

I hate farming.

That being said. I hate PVP too. GvG in general because it tends to create the biggest assholes in the PVP side, and thus encourages me even more not to PVP and thus all those PVP people who say GvG and in wider that PVP is the greatest part of the game, and the only part that skill balances effect reinforce my idea that most of the assholes in this game are from GvG.

You see my problem.

But back to my original point. I hate farming, I don't do it for the same reason. Farmers tend to be the bigger assholes of the PVE side. They farm, to sell stuff they find for lots of money, to buy more expensive stuff from other farmers... For what reason? To make their character the most pwnz they can.

When I play PVE, I play because I have fun doing it, going through different areas to become the strongest I can. And conquer the areas of the world. Explore, finding adventure, and playing out my own (and the actual) story.

When I PVP, its usually Alliance Battles, but sometimes the Team and Random, depending on what the guild is doing. But its only because there is a reward for doing that PVP. A tangible reward that doesnt take to the end of of several rounds. That's always been my major problem with PVP. No real reward. Just fighting for fighting's sake is not its own reward. Titles are stupid, fame and little glowy animals mean nothing to me. And fighting your ashoff in the Hall of Heroes to get a special weapon... means jack.

At what point is this natural love of PVP after PVE going to start?

seems like youve had a hard pvp child hood lol j/k, anyway pvp IMO is not about the titles or glowing animal thingy but to the pure enjoyment of pwning someone with your skills. Its like playing Counter-Strike or Halo, you feel like your better than the guy you killed. For all i care, i can have the best equipments but if I couldnt kill one pvp-er i feel like its useless.

but.

this sense of "superiority" does breed some A**hole players, thinking that they are better than anyone else, but the truth is theyve just played longer than the other guy thus faster finger, combo, timing, etc.

Snow Bunny · Feb 17, 2008, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

When I play PVE, I play because I have fun doing it, going through different areas to become the strongest I can. And conquer the areas of the world. Explore, finding adventure, and playing out my own (and the actual) story.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

that's always been my major problem with PVP. No real reward.

There's no tangible reward according to you for PvE.

Why should there be one for PvP?
People who truly enjoy PvP are the ones that do it for the challenge. That's the fun and reward of it. Being challenged, and winning.

Celestial_Kitsune · Feb 17, 2008, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

I hate farming.

That being said. I hate PVP too. GvG in general because it tends to create the biggest assholes in the PVP side, and thus encourages me even more not to PVP and thus all those PVP people who say GvG and in wider that PVP is the greatest part of the game, and the only part that skill balances effect reinforce my idea that most of the assholes in this game are from GvG.

You see my problem.

But back to my original point. I hate farming, I don't do it for the same reason. Farmers tend to be the bigger assholes of the PVE side. They farm, to sell stuff they find for lots of money, to buy more expensive stuff from other farmers... For what reason? To make their character the most pwnz they can.

When I play PVE, I play because I have fun doing it, going through different areas to become the strongest I can. And conquer the areas of the world. Explore, finding adventure, and playing out my own (and the actual) story.

When I PVP, its usually Alliance Battles, but sometimes the Team and Random, depending on what the guild is doing. But its only because there is a reward for doing that PVP. A tangible reward that doesnt take to the end of of several rounds. That's always been my major problem with PVP. No real reward. Just fighting for fighting's sake is not its own reward. Titles are stupid, fame and little glowy animals mean nothing to me. And fighting your ashoff in the Hall of Heroes to get a special weapon... means jack.

At what point is this natural love of PVP after PVE going to start?

It is essential to separate people from a PvP mode. According to your personal experience, many a GvG player is an asshole. This is your experience, but it should not be used to make hasty generalizations. Most GvG players are not assholes, and bad people don't make GvG format bad. I do think that GvG is the best part of GW PvP when played with good people, and the best reward you get from it is fun.

AuraofMana · Feb 17, 2008, 08:41 PM // 20:41

You get titles for PvP, just like in PvE. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying titles aren't completely useless and crappy. We all know grinding levels > grinding titles.

Kashrlyyk · Feb 17, 2008, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

No, I believe what will awesome people on Guru say instead of listening to GW's dev. Sounds reasonable [/sarcasm]

The same developers have said that they intended for people to play through PvE and then as the endgame play PvP! Yes, you had to do the whole of PvE do start playing GvG: You had to unlock everything through PvE at the start. No PvP characters! No Balthasar Faction.

And you think that what he said in that video was actually what they planned from the start? Sorry, that was just a spur of the moment, just some BS you say on a PvP event? Next time consider the environment and the atmosphere it was uttered in.

Factions was an attempt to get more people to play PvP and it failed. So Nightfall and EotN were more PvE.

What I am wondering about is: Didn´t they make any kind of market research before starting on GW?

Arcanis the Omnipotent · Feb 17, 2008, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial_Kitsune

It is essential to separate people from a PvP mode. According to your personal experience, many a GvG player is an asshole. This is your experience, but it should not be used to make hasty generalizations. Most GvG players are not assholes, and bad people don't make GvG format bad. I do think that GvG is the best part of GW PvP when played with good people, and the best reward you get from it is fun.

Ah, but whenever skill balance times come, all you see are the GvG idiots who think their form of play is the main part of the game, or rather the only part of the game. And that PVE, no matter what form or reason, is noobish and there for must be unimportant.

And those are the people who make PVP seem nonimportant to me. Because I dont want anything to do with those people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

There's no tangible reward according to you for PvE.

Why should there be one for PvP?
People who truly enjoy PvP are the ones that do it for the challenge. That's the fun and reward of it. Being challenged, and winning.

I don't tend to find PVP all that challenging. And therefore I would need a tangible reward for doing it. And no, there's no tanigle reward for PVE, but atleast I enjoy doing that.

Van Goghs Ear · Feb 17, 2008, 09:03 PM // 21:03

There's a saying in life:

99% of the people in the world masturbate, and the other 1% is lying.

I kind of view the pve/pvp debate as such, only it's flip flopped. 1% of the community pvp's competitively, and the other 99% wishes they could.

I just don't get people who only pve. Why play this game if you are only going to pve? Some say they like that you don't have to grind, but once you complete all the chapters (which could easily be done in a week or so) that's all there is left to do, is grind. You might not be grinding for the best armor, best weapons, best w/e, but you're still grinding, titles and farming. That's all there really is left to do, this is not an expanding universe, it only expands once every yearish.

pve'ers are just as bad as pvpers when it comes to showing off. The only difference is pvpers do it with emotes, and pve'ers do it by pinging there crappy sundering weapons in team chat and wearing their black dyed armors with chaos gloves.

also saying you don't pvp because of all the 'aholes' is just a crutch. Don't like trashtalk? Turn off all chat. It's that simple.

I really think the only reason most people say they don't like pvp is simply because they're afraid to look like morons for the first few months while they learn, and rather than taking a chance on something that could possibly be fun, new and exciting, they stick to safe ole pve where the monsters all ball up and only have 4 skills on their bars and you always know what you're gonna face. Safe, boring, predictable pve.

I think anyone who plays this game and slags pvp probably just never gave it the chance it deserves because they couldn't stand being bested by other players and went back to pve where that could never happen and they could feel reassured in knowing that others could never accuse them of being worse players in pve because they have fow armor and chaos gloves...

of course pve only players would never fess up to that, but it's the truth IMO. Competition is part of the human spirit. It's human nature to compete. Too bad a lot of you allowed your shattered egos and pride get in the way of experiencing probably one of the most interesting and unique pvp games that you can find in video games past and present.

but oh well...at least you have a voltaic spear and can complete all the missions on...gasp...hard mode...

Bryant Again · Feb 17, 2008, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Well written post, Van Gogh.

Also, have you kept in touch with Kappa at all?...or do you remember him??

Snow Bunny · Feb 17, 2008, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van Goghs Ear

snip

Post of the year

Stormlord Alex · Feb 17, 2008, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Post of the year

/agreed
Van Goghs... congratulations.
Today, you've joined an elite club.

Thorondor Port · Feb 17, 2008, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

70% PvP and 30% PvE as it started out.

Now I'd say 30% PvP and 70% PvE.

To me this is pretty accuruate.

EDIT: I just read van goghs ear's post. Its like you took words I couldn't speak and wrote them down for me. Amazing post...

Celestial_Kitsune · Feb 17, 2008, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

Ah, but whenever skill balance times come, all you see are the GvG idiots who think their form of play is the main part of the game, or rather the only part of the game. And that PVE, no matter what form or reason, is noobish and there for must be unimportant.

And those are the people who make PVP seem nonimportant to me. Because I dont want anything to do with those people.

Both PvP and PvE need balance. Many skill balances are due to their abuse in PvP. Skill balances can improve PvP, but might have a collateral negative effect on PvE. This might upset some people. However, since you know exactly what bars your opponents will use in PvE, it is not difficult to replace skills that are perceived as nerfed into uselessness with other skills. That is one of the reasons why Anet introduced PvE only skills that are not affected by PvP skill balances.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van Goghs Ear

I kind of view the pve/pvp debate as such, only it's flip flopped. 1% of the community pvp's competitively, and the other 99% wishes they could.

I just don't get people who only pve. Why play this game if you are only going to pve? Some say they like that you don't have to grind, but once you complete all the chapters (which could easily be done in a week or so) that's all there is left to do, is grind. You might not be grinding for the best armor, best weapons, best w/e, but you're still grinding, titles and farming. That's all there really is left to do, this is not an expanding universe, it only expands once every yearish.

You have to realize that people play the game for different reasons. Bartle Test of Gamer Psychology (wiki)explores different preferences of MMORPG players.

enter_the_zone · Feb 17, 2008, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van Goghs Ear

There's a saying in life:

99% of the people in the world masturbate, and the other 1% is lying.

I kind of view the pve/pvp debate as such, only it's flip flopped. 1% of the community pvp's competitively, and the other 99% wishes they could.

I just don't get people who only pve. Why play this game if you are only going to pve? Some say they like that you don't have to grind, but once you complete all the chapters (which could easily be done in a week or so) that's all there is left to do, is grind. You might not be grinding for the best armor, best weapons, best w/e, but you're still grinding, titles and farming. That's all there really is left to do, this is not an expanding universe, it only expands once every yearish.

pve'ers are just as bad as pvpers when it comes to showing off. The only difference is pvpers do it with emotes, and pve'ers do it by pinging there crappy sundering weapons in team chat and wearing their black dyed armors with chaos gloves.

also saying you don't pvp because of all the 'aholes' is just a crutch. Don't like trashtalk? Turn off all chat. It's that simple.

I really think the only reason most people say they don't like pvp is simply because they're afraid to look like morons for the first few months while they learn, and rather than taking a chance on something that could possibly be fun, new and exciting, they stick to safe ole pve where the monsters all ball up and only have 4 skills on their bars and you always know what you're gonna face. Safe, boring, predictable pve.

I think anyone who plays this game and slags pvp probably just never gave it the chance it deserves because they couldn't stand being bested by other players and went back to pve where that could never happen and they could feel reassured in knowing that others could never accuse them of being worse players in pve because they have fow armor and chaos gloves...

of course pve only players would never fess up to that, but it's the truth IMO. Competition is part of the human spirit. It's human nature to compete. Too bad a lot of you allowed your shattered egos and pride get in the way of experiencing probably one of the most interesting and unique pvp games that you can find in video games past and present.

but oh well...at least you have a voltaic spear and can complete all the missions on...gasp...hard mode...

Actually, I was referring to the arseholes on your own team. Not a crutch, my brother is into the whole pvp thing, to the point he has his own vent server, so I know for a fact that pvp players are a bunch of arseholes. Thanks, but no thanks. Oh, and FYI, there are plenty of lame pvp players who think they know it all, having IWAYed R9. GG, you can run a scrub build...

As to being killed by other players, I actually don't care. I sometimes AB for variety, because at least I don't have to listen to their retarded comments on vent. I don't play to compete, I play to relax and have a nice time. Work is competitive enough. But that's not something that most pvp players would know anything about...

Snow Bunny · Feb 17, 2008, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

Actually, I was referring to the arseholes on your own team. Not a crutch, my brother is into the whole pvp thing, to the point he has his own vent server, so I know for a fact that pvp players are a bunch of arseholes. Thanks, but no thanks. Oh, and FYI, there are plenty of lame pvp players who think they know it all, having IWAYed R9. GG, you can run a scrub build...

Did you actually read any of that post by Van Gogh?

You just ignored all of his points and made some BS remark that didn't address anything he said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

I don't tend to find PVP all that challenging. And therefore I would need a tangible reward for doing it. And no, there's no tanigle reward for PVE, but atleast I enjoy doing that.

PvP isn't all that challenging?

Oh that's right, I forgot it's pretty easy to beat Last of Master, Soul Wedding, and Danjang, even when you're Ensign.

enter_the_zone · Feb 17, 2008, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Did you actually read any of that post by Van Gogh?

You just ignored all of his points and made some BS remark that didn't address anything he said.

I was addressing his point as to why most PVE player dislike PVP, specifically turning off all chat. But expecting pvp players to read is like expecting them to follow the caller....pointless 99% of the time.

Llint · Feb 17, 2008, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full Metal X

MONK STOMP EVERYONE ATTACK THE MONK AND WE WILL WIN IGNORE THE FACT THAT HE HAS GUARDIAN AND WE ARE HEXED AND STANDING IN AOE JUST ATTACK HIM!!! CAPS LOCK CRUISE CONTROL

What hexes? The monk will remove those!